If we had to distill the current debate surrounding the Cities XL's proposed feature offerings, it would boil down to this single point of contention: mass transit to be made available only to paid subscribers.
The Planet Offer is what will allow us to sustain further developments for the game and keep our city builder constantly evolving with new features, including additional transport system.
So, to answer in a very straightforward manner: yes, public transportation will be part of the content made available for Planet Offer subscribers. Except for the bus system, as it is mentioned as free additional content for everyone on the Cities XL Information web page.
Ouch! At first blush, there seems to be sufficient reason for fussing. But maybe we should take a step back and consider that we haven't had any real experience with mass transit (just the prospect of our gamer dreams fulfilled...)
We can't be blamed for having high expectations though. We've had months of hype, talks and promises surrounding the lauded mass transit options. We can be forgiven for having a sense of entitlement when it comes to what we think we ought to get in a next-generation city-builder. So, naturally, when we're told "no mass transit for you unless you cough up some dollars every month!" we are understandably miffed.
We've seen some artwork, we heard some talk, we watched some videos, but we really don't know how it all plays out first hand. We don't know to what extent mass transit will be incorporated into the game, how the simulation will handle it, how deep it will be, how extensive the options are, how much complexity it will add, even how much fun it will actually create. We don't even know if the whole concept of mass transit has been finalized by the developers themselves.
What we do know for certain is that mass transit development does not appear to be completed, and therefore will not make the cut for release day, and that even though it will be available only to subscribers, that it would be some time after release.
So if we hold that thought in mind...
Consider, that in the past, Monte Cristo has, on numerous occassions, assured us that their intention is to build a great single-player city-building experience first, and that the online subscriber aspect would be an additional optional experience. If we assume that Monte Cristo still believes in this philosophy and that they are still committed to deliver the best single-player experience that they can, then we must logically conclude that mass transit is not a critical feature for our enjoyment. Could this be conceivable?
We only have a bunch of assumptions and expectations of what it should be, we've got some conceptual video of what it could be, but still with no real experience of what it will actually add. So, if Monte Cristo have made the deliberate decision to omit mass transit from the final release, to have it only available for subscribers, and if we trust Monte Cristo at their word, then we must assume, quite logically, that mass transit must not be that big of a feature and its inclusion does not significantly impact the single-player non-subscriber experience.
Ok, ok... I don't expect that to be much consolation, but we will remember that game development has always been a business first. And among all the development and design decisions, there are surely many business decisions that shape the final product whether we like it or not.
It's easy to understand the furor in the community. Yes, in large part it is due to our possibly inflated sense of entitlement, but no small part have the developers played themselves by seducing us with the possibilities of what we have most desired to see in a city-builder, winning our support and admiration in the early days -- we can't be blamed for feeling a little abandoned here.
Knowing all that, is mass transit in this game still worth the fuss? Would you commit to buying the game if Monte Cristo said "Yes, mass transit will be available for free for everyone" ?
Sep 25, 2009 at 8:52 AM <<Knowing all that, is mass transit in this game still worth the fuss? Would you commit to buying the game if Monte Cristo said "Yes, mass transit will be available for free for everyone" ?>>
Yes, mass-transit would convince me to buy Cities XL.
Sep 25, 2009 at 9:18 AM Thanks for this article, Dirk. It's the same question I asked in my thread here at ST: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=370&threadid=109529&enterthread=y
I might be a minority here, but, IMHO, mass transit is just one reason why I'm disappointed with Cities XL so far. My three top features BEFORE mass transit are:
- SC4-style (or better) Region Play and terraforming
- No control over custom content
- A user-friendly UI and simulation (gameplay, zoning, budget management, etc.)
So supposedly, if MC confirmed that mass transit is -no question about it - free in single player as well, I'd still be reluctant to purchase the game. Being stuck within a 10x10km map does not fulfill my goals of a realistic city, nor does a hard-to-manage gameplay. CC is also very important to me.
(On the other hand, people over at the old CitiesXL.com forums craved for Region Play almost unanimously, like mass transit now.)
Just my 2 cents.
Sep 25, 2009 at 9:43 AM Yes, a city building game without mass transit - it's not a city building game.
And another remark, maybe a bit off topic, can you do the things in the video in the game? I could not use it freely like that, tunnels did not work, bridge and road were separate tools.
Sep 25, 2009 at 10:02 AM Great article, but there are 2 outdated piece of information:
1) Buses WILL NOT be made available anymore to the single-player package. This was said here in the Simtropolis Interview and CONFIRMED after by MC community managers:
Here the interview excerpt:
---
MC: As you know (...) Mass transportation (including buses) will be part of the future features and, as such, will only be part of the Planet Offer. We intend to deliver the bus system this side of Christmas and will confirm as soon as we can.
---
2) MC staff, namely Gregory and Mikewever already said in numerous occasions that CXL IS A MMO ORIENTED GAME with a "single player back-side". Bellow is the quote from Gregory translated from a french forum:
---
Cities XL is essentially an MMO, and like all MMOs additions can not be done (funded) with grace subscriptions (...)
---
SOURCE: http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showpost.php?p=19336429&postcount=6
I believe that additional clarification by MC is necessary...
Also agree that this is the least of the problems of CXL. It hasn't any simulation at all, except for the the traffic subsystem. For a overall gameplay comparison between SC4 and CXL, take a look a this post:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=370&threadid=109995&enterthread=y#1618834
Sep 25, 2009 at 10:16 AM @Nilo: You're right, when I read that part my brain parsed it differently; I still had the original quote in mind, but it does sound like that's the case. Also, thanks for the link and translation!
Sep 25, 2009 at 10:25 AM Whilst acknowledging Nilo's highlights of the MC interview, to answer the question, mass transit in the single player game would indeed convince me to buy the game.
I would like to to have seen a little more content and had a some more time with the demo to have been able to make any serious purchase decision. Afterall, they're expecting me to part with some serious cash in order to get the 'complete' package. I've spent (potentially) less money on white goods and had more time to research the pros and cons than I got with the Cities XL demo. All we have left are the remarks on forums like this one. Which, frankly, are far from favourable.
Sep 25, 2009 at 11:04 AM As one who never really played Sim "City" for the sake of its urban simulation aspects, I might have a bit of a different perspective on the question. I first have to admit, though, to some degree of surprise to find that so many folks apparently do take the simulation end of these games so seriously. For them, I can see the "showstopper" nature of the issue to the extent they want to buy the complete gaming experience straight out of the box. Given the ham-handed way that Monte Cristo has dealt with the community over the course of developing and bringing CXL to market, I can certainly see why these folks are rightly miffed,
I guess my beef is more general in nature. I simply cannot conceive of why anyone would buy a game where, as part of the marketing strategy, you are coerced into purchasing a bunch of things you don't want- MMO capability for one- to get a few things you do want, like trains and airports. Even worse, you aren't really even buying those latter things- you are simply renting them. MC says, in effect, "keep paying for the Planet Offer or we'll take your precious buses away." That's the same morality as the guy who sells heroin to an addict, and it's why I won;t be buying this game.
David
Sep 25, 2009 at 11:31 AM For "morality" in my last post, please substitute "business ethic"- a better choice of words, as this situation has nothing to do with anyone's morals.
David
Sep 25, 2009 at 12:10 PM Mass Transit is a core feature of the city builder. So if that's being left out then what else is?
Also it's the principle of it. MC could have just made a great city builder. Without the expense of the MMO etc.
But no they have to just blunder along trying to get into new markets, that wont like this type of game, and ditching the old markets, that will definately buy it.
tbh, I used to love CU, but when it started becoming CXL the love started to slowly turn into hate, and right now I'm hoping this game will fail and teach them a lesson for ignoring so many people.
I also hope Simtropolis will stop being the official CXL forum and taking the wieght of the hosting game forums for MC.
Sep 25, 2009 at 12:20 PM Just to clarify: My second observation was to show the contrast between what Monte Cristo said since the beginning of the project and what they are saying today.
<<Consider, that in the past, Monte Cristo has, on numerous occassions, assured us that their intention is to build a great single-player city-building experience first, and that the online subscriber aspect would be an additional optional experience.>> (excerpt from the blog post).
The above quote is spot on, and the fact that MC changed it's discourse now is what requires further clarification by them, since it appears that they indeed changed (radically) the game filosofy.
Also agree with the second part of David statement, about the coercive nature of the MMO model. That's the right word to define it. However nobody trully expected a "full package" right from the beginning, but the "ultimate insult" is that MC simply ruled out any single-player expansion pack, even paid and even if it was delayed. So their stance now is that there will not be any upgrade for the single-player package, NEVER EVER. It's either MMO subscription, or nothing. So that's the big elephant in the room, because it's a extreme position against all that was sais and promised from the beginning....
About the simulation, while some play for the purpose of "sculpting" their cities without any gameplay regard, most, for what I could see so far anyway, is complaining about the "boring", "static" and "superficial" gameplay concept, what is directly related with the simulation core, so I wouldn't say that this is the exception, rather is the main complain besides this SP "feature-lockout".
Thanks for reading.
Sep 26, 2009 at 1:49 AM There are a lot of things that I can ignore in order to immerse myself in a city builder. Transportation is not one of them. That is one of the reasons that I just couldn't forgive some of the other shortcomings of SimCity Societies. If I could've just plopped stuff down and been able to build what at least LOOKED like a semi-realistic city with trains and highways and such then it wouldn't have been so bad.
Not being able to do anything except roads would be CONSTANTLY gnawing at the back of mind and keep me from really immersing myself in the city-building aspect of this game.
I'm not even going to get into the whole "MMO" thing...
Sep 26, 2009 at 6:46 AM If they brought mass transit to the game i would buy it I want to buy it but without transportation systems and things like ordinances which i think are very much over looked as well the game just isn't the same. I myself am a total graphics hound and i love what I see with this game but have cancelled my order and will not buy this game until i see that transportation is not only institued in the single player game but that it works. I want to see that my sims use it. I love the idea of gems in the cities xl but to me they should all revolve around the transportation networks in the game what city builder really wants to run a ski lodge? ( Come on that crap) Now ask what city buil;der wants to run a gem such as a train network meaning sub ways and trains and GLR lines that they can run for profit within a city game a Bus Gem and a Taxi gem etc I would think these items wouyld drive the city builder crazy that theyd love it, but a ski lodge are u kidding me? Release a game without a transportation network are you kidding me? its a total joke the only way ill buy this game is if the transportation system is intence
Sep 27, 2009 at 9:40 PM If Monte Cristo said "Yes, mass transit will be available for free for everyone" I would be a lot more convinced about the product, but I've had some very bad service from them recently, and that, combined with some of the other feedback I've heard about MC's strategy/approach to both the product and their target audience still have me feeling, at best, very grumpy with them.
I prefer the single-player aspect to city building games, but the MMO aspect also excites me enough to want to give it a decent go. I'd like to say here - actually, there ARE some MMO's that DON'T require a monthly subscription. I don't play it myself, but a number of my friends play 'GuildWars' which fits into that category, along with (at least) several other MMOs. Why can't CitiesXL do that? It's obvious that for this genre of game, a monthly subscription just doesn't sit well with 95% of potential users.
Also, if they needed additional funds coming through on a regular basis, why not set up the game in a way that's desirable to play for the large majority of gamers (i.e. works well for both single-player & MMO, includes MT etc), and sell regular add-on's available for one-time-purchase at the shops (you can go and by a CD with a couple of GEMs and a couple of other features and/or cheats, with these expansions available say 3-monthly for say 10-20 Euros).
Sep 29, 2009 at 4:36 AM Ya see when CXL was first talked about a few years back and I think even more recently like the past half year, it didn't seem like I had to play the MMO portion of the game. I was only going to play it single player regardless. Im not all mad that there trying to get more money through subscriptions or whatever I just don't like those kind of games really. But now it seems that that's what the games all about. I do think its cheap that MASS TRANSIT has been left out of the game except if you want to pay extra for it basically. I don't get that at all and I find it really cheap on MC end.
Oct 2, 2009 at 3:46 PM So-far I have pre-ordered the "Limited edition of the game... £29.99
All you people got to give M.C a chance All this bad feedback from the community has gotta get M.C concerned. They said that the Bus Mass Transit GEM will be released this side of Christmas. At the moment the game looked pretty well polished compared to the likes of SSC. I'm going to buy a 3-month subscription of planet offer to see how consistent the free stuff and the GEM's are. If MC don't deliver I won't bother with PO. Overall the game plus (Limited Edition) + 3 months of PO = lots of dosh for M.C £40. BTW does GEM's effect Single Player mode or do they only effect PO?
Oct 11, 2009 at 3:19 PM Kyle, many of us, especially some like me who were beta testers for months, have given M.C. more than a fair chance. This is a horrible business decision and it has convinced many, myself included, who would absolutely buy this game to not purchase it. It was an idiotic decision, and its a weak attempt at making the MMO aspect succeed even if it means the single player game falls flat on its face.
Plain and simple, many avid city builders have no interest in playing this game with anyone else. I have loved MMOs in the past and I have loved city builders, but mixing them together does nothing for me. I want a city builder that puts me in my own little world and allows me to carry out my own wishes without interference from anyone else. Taking mass-transit out of the single player mode was the silliest decision M.C. could have ever made and they deserve plenty of negative feedback for it.
Oct 13, 2009 at 8:49 PM You know what, I honestly think it is pointless for MC to leave out mass transit! Having modern day building and cities without mass transit is like mixing two age periods! We would expect no mass transit if the sim was designed to build cities of King Author's period, but to do this and then try to dupe the fans with a price on something that should be officially part of the game (whether single or multiplayer), I don't think so! Again, another problem is that mass transit (anything else on the planet) can be taken away if I can't afford to stay on the net or miss a payment, Oh no! It would have been more fruitful is MC had added all that should be added to the box game for single or multiplay, but the planet aspect of the game should have had other exciting aspects such as building armies to conquire other cities, or maybe a more peaceful approach such as space exploration, or maybe evolving cities into the distant future! They should have done something much different, rather than try to take advantage of people who love city simulating games.
Oct 13, 2009 at 9:49 PM I think what has happened is Monte Cristo has introduced itself to a new set of fans (MMO enthusiasts), these kind of fans will love CitiesXL because it is the latest in MMO gaming, a new fad, but these fans do not necessarily have any particular interest in city building. After a year or so when they get bored and move on, CitiesXL will struggle to maintain its servers and then eventually die out. All the while, the true loyal City Simulation fans who love the genre will still be creating new mods for SC4, the reason being SC4 offers its fans equal features and freedom to customise, while CXL doesn't even offer buses.. I know which game i favour..
Personally I think Monte Cristo made a fatal mistake when they changed the name from CU to CXL, ignored the fans and went off track. I am going to just sit back patiently and wait for SC5.
Oct 15, 2009 at 1:14 PM <<Knowing all that, is mass transit in this game still worth the fuss? Would you commit to buying the game if Monte Cristo said "Yes, mass transit will be available for free for everyone" ?>>
Knowing what we do now of the full game, even if they put in mass transit I would not commit bo buying it. This title falls well short of a next gen city building game and leaves out the fun in what a game is supposed to have.
Oct 15, 2009 at 2:17 PM porfabor si alguien q sepa español ele esto nesecito ayuda y no se imgles plz ayudenme soy nuevo en este juego y quiero aprender mas gracias
Oct 15, 2009 at 8:25 PM I just bought CitiesXL but haven't taken it out of the packaging yet. My plan was to reward myself by opening it after I finish a slew of midterm exams. Unfortunately, purchasing the online portion of the game was never in my plans, and after reading all this business about mass transit, I am considering returning the game. From the sounds of it, there will never be a city simulator as good as SC4. Keep updating the custom content on this site! It has guaranteed SC4 as the simulator-to-beat for the last 6 years, and from the looks of it, its reign may well last longer than that.
Oct 18, 2009 at 10:54 PM I am not going to buy cities XL without a full suite of transportation options. As it stands now the single player experience has been intentionally crippled to force the player to pay for DLC (downloadable content). To add insult to injury, the demo of this game is no longer playable, so you can't even try it out any more.
Calling this game an MMO is an insult to real MMO developers - chat and an auction house are not significant enough interactions to warrant a subscription fee.
Oct 27, 2009 at 5:22 AM I was looking forward to the Cities XL review and wanted to buy it.. But when I'm now reading, that there ain't public mass transit and that there ain't even an addon but you have to subscribe somewhere, I reconsider it and will spend my money for something else. It's just a very important part of city planning and city building imo!
So maybe some .... @ Monte Christo change their mind and THINK about this whole situation. This is just ridiculous. I don't want to buy a €50-demo-version where such important features are not included!
Nov 19, 2009 at 7:01 AM I am to submit a report on this niche your post has been very very helpfull
Regards
Nov 30, 2009 at 6:40 AM Hi nice site design
Regards